Yes, frankly, I do. We appear to be returning to the trappings of the worst forms of "noble simplicity." Bad vestments, and ignoble liturgy, thanks Vatican II!
No more throne (just a 'white chair'), no more fiddleback chasuble, no more dalmatics under the chasuble, no more papal fanon, no more lace (except on Marini, Ganswein, and a couple others), no more Masses at stational churches, no super oversized candlesticks and crucifix in a straight row on the altar, no more red shoes, no more mozzetta, no more ermine, no more ad orientem. Of course we miss you Pope (emeritus) Benedict XVI!!
Very good points. I miss the exalted liturgies of B xvi. I look forward to the simplicity of Pope Francis who seems to touch the hearts of all my lost and fallen-away friends. I shall miss Pope B xvi's homilies.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel like I'm living a nightmare. It's like that movie "Shoes Of The Fisherman" has become a reality. The sense of dread I feel gets worse everytime I see this new Pope. I don't know why but I can't help feeling that Francis is trying to dismantle the papacy as we know it into his own private vision of what he thinks it should be. Everytime I think of him my head starts to bound....I'll really think I'm going to have a stroke. Something is wrong.
Gone is the hermeneutic of continuity, to be replaced by a total rupture. The heremeutic of humility seems not to care of the impression it is giving of Benedict XVI. It is a great disservice to the memory of a great pope. The present Pope may speak about his beloved predecessor every chance he gets, but his actions speak louder than his words. Eloi, Eloi Lama sabactani
God forgive me I know, I have to be honest, the new Papapcy is turnig into a nightmare. This "humble" stuff is making me choke, like the abvove posts state no more fiddlebacks, ermine, stunning mitres, and poor Marini looks so lost without our beloved Holy Father Pope Benedict the XVI. So you bet I miss him!!!!!
We read in horror (Associated Press): Francis also raised traditional eyebrows when he refused the golden pectoral cross offered to him right after his election by Monsignor Guido Marini, the Vatican's liturgy guru who under Benedict became the symbol of Benedict's effort to restore the Gregorian chant and heavy silk brocaded vestments of the pre-Vatican II liturgy to papal Masses.
Marini has gamely stayed by Francis' side as the new pope puts his own stamp on Vatican Masses with no-nonsense vestments and easy off-the-cuff homilies. But there is widespread expectation that Francis will soon name a new master of liturgical ceremonies more in line with his priorities of bringing the church and its message of love and service to ordinary people without the "high church" trappings of his predecessor.
There were certainly none of those trappings on display Thursday at the Casal del Marmo juvenile detention facility in Rome, where the 76-year-old Francis got down on his knees and to wash the feet of 12 inmates, two of them women. The rite re-enacts Jesus' washing of the feet of his 12 apostles during the Last Supper before his crucifixion, a sign of his love and service to them. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_POPE_TRADITIONALISTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-03-29-16-43-17
This must be God's punishment to Benedict's abdication.
Yes. I do not like change, especially in my church and when it appears to be a sudden whim and seems to criticize our beloved Benedict XVI. I am concerned about what the future will bring.
Yes, I miss the pope already. Frankly, I do not know what to make of Francis. I have no idea why he accepted to be Bishop of Rome. It appears to me he resents the papacy and Catholic traditions. He is the pope to resign and to do so quickly. If this man stays long in office, he will deface and deconstruct the Catholic Church. Is Francis a Liberation Theologian?
This is all very shocking. Why must we pit Francis against Benedict? Why do we not presume charity? Why do we not believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding our Church? If comments such as the above posts were made about Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI during his pontificate there would be a rally cry against the post by many who are now denouncing Pope Francis. Francis loves the Church just as Benedict loves the Church. Let's not give ourselves over to selfish personal desires but rather let us praise God for the continued guidance of shepherds like Francis and Benedict.
I say again, what's more important for the new pope to do--to reach out to people and strengthen their lives of faith according to the Gospel, after the church has recently suffered in so many ways; or to maintain the overall appearance of sacred ritual, pre-1958? While I love the fact that Benedict XVI has renewed emphasis on church traditions, and the fact that he has stated that the Tridentine Mass has never gone away, but is instead the Extraordinary Form of worship -something for which I will be eternally grateful- I feel that at this time, Francis' priorities lie in spreading the gospel message of helping those less fortunate, whether it's through missionary work, or helping in our own communities. So yes, I highly doubt that Francis is intent upon reversing Summorum Pontificum at any time. Also, I am not saying that Benedict XVI did not encourage us to do as Jesus commanded, "to deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow him" (Matthew 16:24), and to "love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12), which I know he did quite often. Rather, I am saying that Francis probably feels that people may better connect with him preaching the gospel message if he were seen as the "last of all, the servant of all" (Mark 9:35). Finally, I agree with the post above, which makes an excellent statement, that "Francis loves the church just as Benedict loves the church."
Yes, frankly, I do. We appear to be returning to the trappings of the worst forms of "noble simplicity." Bad vestments, and ignoble liturgy, thanks Vatican II!
ReplyDeleteNo more throne (just a 'white chair'), no more fiddleback chasuble, no more dalmatics under the chasuble, no more papal fanon, no more lace (except on Marini, Ganswein, and a couple others), no more Masses at stational churches, no super oversized candlesticks and crucifix in a straight row on the altar, no more red shoes, no more mozzetta, no more ermine, no more ad orientem. Of course we miss you Pope (emeritus) Benedict XVI!!
ReplyDeleteVery good points. I miss the exalted liturgies of B xvi. I look forward to the simplicity of Pope Francis who seems to touch the hearts of all my lost and fallen-away friends. I shall miss Pope B xvi's homilies.
DeleteMai!
ReplyDeleteWe love him per Semper!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel like I'm living a nightmare. It's like that movie "Shoes Of The Fisherman" has become a reality. The sense of dread I feel gets worse everytime I see this new Pope. I don't know why but I can't help feeling that Francis is trying to dismantle the papacy as we know it into his own private vision of what he thinks it should be. Everytime I think of him my head starts to bound....I'll really think I'm going to have a stroke. Something is wrong.
ReplyDeleteGone is the hermeneutic of continuity, to be replaced by a total rupture. The heremeutic of humility seems not to care of the impression it is giving of Benedict XVI. It is a great disservice to the memory of a great pope. The present Pope may speak about his beloved predecessor every chance he gets, but his actions speak louder than his words. Eloi, Eloi Lama sabactani
ReplyDeleteGod forgive me I know, I have to be honest, the new Papapcy is turnig into a nightmare. This "humble" stuff is making me choke, like the abvove posts state no more fiddlebacks, ermine, stunning mitres, and poor Marini looks so lost without our beloved Holy Father Pope Benedict the XVI. So you bet I miss him!!!!!
ReplyDeleteImmensely.
ReplyDeleteWe read in horror (Associated Press): Francis also raised traditional eyebrows when he refused the golden pectoral cross offered to him right after his election by Monsignor Guido Marini, the Vatican's liturgy guru who under Benedict became the symbol of Benedict's effort to restore the Gregorian chant and heavy silk brocaded vestments of the pre-Vatican II liturgy to papal Masses.
ReplyDeleteMarini has gamely stayed by Francis' side as the new pope puts his own stamp on Vatican Masses with no-nonsense vestments and easy off-the-cuff homilies. But there is widespread expectation that Francis will soon name a new master of liturgical ceremonies more in line with his priorities of bringing the church and its message of love and service to ordinary people without the "high church" trappings of his predecessor.
There were certainly none of those trappings on display Thursday at the Casal del Marmo juvenile detention facility in Rome, where the 76-year-old Francis got down on his knees and to wash the feet of 12 inmates, two of them women. The rite re-enacts Jesus' washing of the feet of his 12 apostles during the Last Supper before his crucifixion, a sign of his love and service to them.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_POPE_TRADITIONALISTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-03-29-16-43-17
This must be God's punishment to Benedict's abdication.
Yes. I do not like change, especially in my church and when it appears to be a sudden whim and seems to criticize our beloved Benedict XVI. I am concerned about what the future will bring.
ReplyDeleteYes, I miss the pope already. Frankly, I do not know what to make of Francis. I have no idea why he accepted to be Bishop of Rome. It appears to me he resents the papacy and Catholic traditions. He is the pope to resign and to do so quickly. If this man stays long in office, he will deface and deconstruct the Catholic Church. Is Francis a Liberation Theologian?
ReplyDeleteDozie
This is all very shocking. Why must we pit Francis against Benedict? Why do we not presume charity? Why do we not believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding our Church? If comments such as the above posts were made about Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI during his pontificate there would be a rally cry against the post by many who are now denouncing Pope Francis. Francis loves the Church just as Benedict loves the Church. Let's not give ourselves over to selfish personal desires but rather let us praise God for the continued guidance of shepherds like Francis and Benedict.
ReplyDeleteI say again, what's more important for the new pope to do--to reach out to people and strengthen their lives of faith according to the Gospel, after the church has recently suffered in so many ways; or to maintain the overall appearance of sacred ritual, pre-1958? While I love the fact that Benedict XVI has renewed emphasis on church traditions, and the fact that he has stated that the Tridentine Mass has never gone away, but is instead the Extraordinary Form of worship -something for which I will be eternally grateful- I feel that at this time, Francis' priorities lie in spreading the gospel message of helping those less fortunate, whether it's through missionary work, or helping in our own communities. So yes, I highly doubt that Francis is intent upon reversing Summorum Pontificum at any time. Also, I am not saying that Benedict XVI did not encourage us to do as Jesus commanded, "to deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow him" (Matthew 16:24), and to "love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12), which I know he did quite often. Rather, I am saying that Francis probably feels that people may better connect with him preaching the gospel message if he were seen as the "last of all, the servant of all" (Mark 9:35). Finally, I agree with the post above, which makes an excellent statement, that "Francis loves the church just as Benedict loves the church."
ReplyDeleteHeri, Hodie, Semper
ReplyDelete